Q&A - P4 Chinese
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The way the teacher amended your boy's answer is appropriate. You boy's sentence started with ni(3) which is not suitable as it's more for a dialogue, otherwise the sentence structure is good. The sample answer is the best
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Hi hi,
I'm a distinction student for Chinese from psle to A level (must qualify first in this thread I notice).
I'm a techno idiot and I don't know how I can type in Chinese font altho I do have the language tool.
Here goes:
I thought No. 1 and 2 are legitimate. No. 3 doesn't sound natural.
The use of 'ni3' is alright. It has no impact on the sentence.
'cai2' can also be used as 'then', depending on how it is used. Like No. 2.
For Chinese, from what I know, there is no explanation of how the words should be used becos it doesn't have any strict grammatical rules to follow like English. Maybe some dictionaries meant to teach ang mohs would have this function, but I believe it's not common.
Your son's sentence was wrong becos of the 'yao4'. Usually, if a sentence is preceded with 'yao4' eg. ni3 yao4 xian1 zuo4 gong1 ke4, it's followed by 'cai2 neng2 kan4 dian4 shi4', instead of the given sentence. Even then, the better word to use is 'dei3' instead of 'yao4'.
Like English, many Chinese words are paired with others to give a smoother flow to the sentence, eg. 'xian1' with 'ran2 hou4', 'dei3' with 'cai2'. It's more of reading and speaking the language frequently. Only by doing so will you be able to use them naturally, without yourself realising it. I was shocked to see you people trying to explain how 'ran2 hou4' and 'cai2' are used, becos it's not natural at all and Chinese is a very fluid language. You can't fix one word to be used in only certain ways altho there're some that you can. I was at this explaining process only when I attended a Chinese-English translation course. I remember explaining why a sentence with the word 'bei4' ie. 'ta1 bei4 lao3 shi1 cheng1 zan4 le' (he was praised by the teacher) was not appropriate becos 'bei4' has a negative connotation. Other than that, throughout my life of learning Chinese, I'm never asked to explain how it is used or why it is used unless I'm teaching Chinese to a Malay or Caucasian. -
rains:
'ta1 bei4 lao3 shi1 cheng1 zan4 le' (he was praised by the teacher) was not appropriate becos 'bei4' has a negative connotation.
Can u explain what u meant by \"bei4 has a negative connotation\". -
Uh-Oh:
Can u explain what u meant by \"bei4 has a negative connotation\".
'bei4' is usually used when someone is being scolded, sabotaged, framed, punished. In Chinese, we don't associate it with good things usually. So it's not natural to say 'bei4 cheng1 zan4' (coarsely translated as 'was praised'). -
rains:
No offense, but i would suggest that u look up the meaning of \"bei4\" in the Han Yu Ci Dian.Uh-Oh:
Can u explain what u meant by \"bei4 has a negative connotation\".
'bei4' is usually used when someone is being scolded, sabotaged, framed, punished. In Chinese, we don't associate it with good things usually. So it's not natural to say 'bei4 cheng1 zan4' (coarsely translated as 'was praised'). -
Uh-Oh:
No offense, but i would suggest that u look up the meaning of \"bei4\" in the Han Yu Ci Dian.
Yes, I have. I don't think my explanation was in any way injustified. In Chinese, one character can have multiple meanings. The one I checked up on (xian dai hua yu ci dian), most of the words and phrases that pair with 'bei4' do not have positive implications, which support my claim that 'bei4' has a negative connotation.
The lecturer who has a doctorate in linguistics agreed with me when I gave my explanation of 'bei4' having a negative connotation. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on how it differs from your opinion? I don't mean to drag out the credential of the lecturer, but I'm not convinced about why I am not right.
Chinese often cannot be explained based on one character alone. It depends alot on how it is used, where it is used, the context mainly.
Would you mind sharing why you suggested that I look up the meaning of 'bei4'? -
Simply bcos when i looked up the dictionary, it doesn’t say “bei4” has a negative connotation. No doubt, “bei4” can be used in a negative situation, but that doesn’t represent that it can ONLY be used in that manner. Else, how would u explain this sentence >>> tian1 kong1 bei4 wan3 xia2 ran3 hong2 le. Surely there is nothing negative abt this sentence?I came across this sentence fr a book published in China ( it is one of those books which explain Yu3 Fa3 to primary school students).
P.S: everything i discussed here is purely for academic discussion purposes. -
To parents out there who r looking for books which explain the Chinese Grammar:
U can get them fr those Chinese bookshops at Bras Basah Complex , such as You Lian Shu Ju, Shang Hai Shu Ju etc.
Some of these books r written for primary/sec students, so they are very easy to understand. -
I did use the word ‘usually’ (bei4 is usually used when …)and I did qualify that in Chinese, no one word is confined to one definition or the way it’s used. That’s why I only quoted that particular sentence ‘ta1 bei4 lao3 shi1 cheng1 zan4 le’.
In your sentence, ‘bei4’ does not have a negative connotation becos it’s describing a beautiful scenery. Besides, in my sentence above, the subject ‘ta1’ is a person, so it implies that something is ‘being done’ to that person. In any case, I was using this sentence as a non-example bcos this sentence doesn’t hold in Chinese ie. it’s a wrong way to translate ‘He was praised by the teacher’.
Like I said, Chinese does not have very hard and fast rules for a particular word (usually), so in normal Chinese dictionaries, you don’t see the word being explained as having a certain connotation altho some do. Above all, ‘bei4’ is not a noun in the sentences we use (altho it can be used as a noun if paired with other words), so it really depends on HOW it is used rather than WHAT it is.
I’ll reiterate what I said in my earlier post:
Chinese often cannot be explained based on one character alone. It depends alot on how it is used, where it is used, the context mainly. -
Uh-Oh:
Thanks I will look out for it.To parents out there who r looking for books which explain the Chinese Grammar:
U can get them fr those Chinese bookshops at Bras Basah Complex , such as You Lian Shu Ju, Shang Hai Shu Ju etc.
Some of these books r written for primary/sec students, so they are very easy to understand.